Jose (7:09): we will begin by discussing the proposal from the special committee... You can download files at this link ---> http://www.box.net/shared/8treb1h1mk
Jose (7:10): since we do not know who each other are...i will ask that when you would like to speak on a topic that you state your name and want to speak
Kenneth (7:10): should we go around with quick intros first?
Jose (7:10): when you are done speaking...type "yield"
Ahmed (7:11): 'sup party people?
Jose (7:11): that is ok...if you would like to state your name and district at this time that will be fine
Kenneth (7:11): kenneth kuan, pacific northwest
Darren (7:11): darren page, member of pacific lutheran university of the pacific northwest district
Ashley (7:12): ashley thompson, pacific northwest
Helen (7:12): helen mak, pacific northwest
Brian (7:12): brian egger, willamette, pnw
Jose (7:12): i'm trustee jose arteaga from texas a&m university
Tracy (7:12): tracy meyer from university of washington
Brianne (7:12): brianne hoover, ohio
Ahmed (7:12): ahmed osman, snoqualmie pnw
Kevin (7:12): kevin sullivan, ohio
Raymond (7:12): raymond miller, purdue university, indiana district
Terry (7:12): terry d. Williams, member, ohio wesleyan university circle k chapter
Oliver (7:12): oliver chung, pnw alumni
Zach (7:13): zachary davis, iu, indiana district
Jose (7:14): ok...to so we'll start with the proposal...if you have any questions we will begin...please indicate the article, section and page before your question
Jose (7:14): i'll open the floor to any questions
Brian (7:15): hand
Darren (7:15): jose can you clarify which document you are referring to?
Jose (7:15): yes...let me clarify
Jose (7:16): the special committee on the future of cki has proposed bylaw changes "exhibit c"
Darren (7:16): thank you
Jose (7:16): the i-board will be reviewing these at the upcoming board meeting
Jose (7:16): if you have any questions about the document now is the time to bring those up
Brian (7:17): article 11 (sub-regions) pg 14
Jose (7:17): brian
Brian (7:18): why does the i-board feel it is necessary to define what the sub-regional standing committees shall be? Wouldn't it be more purposeful for each sub-region to define which committees/task forces will benefit their member clubs?
Brian (7:19): for example, some sub-regions may not find the need for a public-relations manager.
Jose (7:20): the idea is to have a consistant committee structure...these committees are general ones that should be in each but i understand your point that some may not apply to all regions
Brian (7:20): not only that, but do the belong in the bylaws?
Brian (7:21): they would be better served in the cki policy code which is amendable at anytime by a 2/3 vote from the iboard
Zach (7:21): i agree
Jose (7:21): point well taken...i will bring that up to the board. Thanks
Brian (7:22): are we allowed only one question
Brian (7:22): at a time?
Jose (7:22): lol...no feel free to continue until others say they would like to speak
Brian (7:23): article 21 revenue pg 29
Brian (7:23): the annual club fee as presented in this document seems to be based on all clubs in the organization having 20 members, yet insitutions with less than 1,000 students only have to maintain 15 paid members
Brian (7:24): why isn't the annual club fee being prorated like it is for countries with a gnp less than $10,000
Darren (7:25): hand
Brian (7:25): i can see why community colleges will not like the annual club fee it is not amended
Brian (7:25): yield
Jose (7:25): great question...
Jose (7:26): i'm not sure if this point was considered by the special committee/executive committee
Jose (7:26): i will bring it up for consideration and inquire with the staff about this
Jose (7:27): thanks brian, for your questions. You bring up good points
Zach (7:27): article 19 section six page 26
Zach (7:28): why are immediate past area coordinators not allowed to be dals
Zach (7:28): we have always allowed ip govs?
Helen (7:29): are area coordinators elected at icon?
Zach (7:29): if i am reading it correctly currently it would not include the past area coordinators, but rather the dals at icon would be the international board and the current area coordinators
Helen (7:29): no wait. Nevermind
Kevin (7:29): your answer is article 19 page 25 section 5
Kevin (7:29): ip ac's are allowed to vote
Zach (7:30): yes, but only as a rep of a club
Zach (7:30): not as a dal
Jose (7:30): zach you are correct in your reading
Andy (7:31): question not pertaining to this conversation directly and not meant to distract the current conversation: but could a copy of the bylaws be put online that doesn't have pages with text cut off on the bottom?
Zach (7:31): haha. That is a great point andy
Jose (7:32): was an online version cutoff?
Zach (7:32): yes
Andy (7:32): the version you can download from the website, yes
Zach (7:32): and the version with the link as some cut off as well
Andy (7:33): actually, every version of the bylaws i have looked at for the past year have been cut off at the bottom of some of the pages
Jose (7:33): sorry i didn't notice that in my copy
Brian (7:33): hand
Jose (7:33): brian
Brian (7:34): when the new graphic standards were incorporated into the website, some of the pdf files were altered, i believe it will address this once a new staff person is hired full time
Brian (7:34): the website is lacking in a number of areas
Brian (7:34): the copy you provided jose is formatted correctly
Brian (7:34): thanks!
Brian (7:34): yield
Jose (7:34): thanks for clarification
Jose (7:35): lets continue with questions....anyone?
Brian (7:35): hand
Jose (7:35): yes brian
Andy (7:36): yeah, let's fix that before a new staff person is hired, your governing documents should be readily accessible in its complete form without any errors for all general members to view
Andy (7:36): without a time delay
Brian (7:36): article 20 (committees) pg 28
Zach (7:37): just to interject, the website is not controlled by the board or jose, that would be something to speak with casey about, but is a very valid point
Andy (7:37): i'm sure the board or jose can speak to casey
Brian (7:37): why does your iboard feel empowered to change the standing committees for the incoming board of representatives? Would it make sense to evaluate them once the new structure is implemented?
Jose (7:39): these committees are in essance the same with some changes
Brian (7:39): i disagree
Brian (7:39): why are the changes needed?
Jose (7:40): distributing the work into these five committees would allow more flexibility for each committee to specialize in one area
Brian (7:40): but how do we know that when the new structure has not been adopted?
Jose (7:41): the only committee that is changing would be mkfr which would be split up and the addition of resources committee
Darren (7:41): perhaps there has been a problem on this year's committee structure that the i-board felt the need to change the committee's
Brian (7:42): thank you jose for clarifying
Brian (7:42): second question
Jose (7:42): one second
Jose (7:42): these committees were not a suggestion from the board...they were proposed from the special committee...i will inquire what about their thought process in making the changes
Jose (7:43): continue brian
Brian (7:43): article 10 (areas) pg 10
Brian (7:43): section 3 (a)
Brian (7:44): if sub-regions are supposed to be based on the geographic location of chartered and potential clubs why can't areas span across more the one kiwanis district?
Brian (7:44): it seems arbitrary to not base our boundaries on our clubs not kiwanis which have been changed since 1931
Brian (7:45): is this in their to prevent people from ultimately realizing districts wil be elminated eventually if we regionalize?
Brian (7:46): yield
Jose (7:47): i believe this was included to ease some of kiwanis' concerns but i am not entirely sure what the thought process was in making this restriction
Darren (7:47): hand
Jose (7:48): i'll inquire with the committee about their logic
Jose (7:48): brain are you finished with this section?
Jose (7:48): *brian
Brian (7:48): yes sorry i thought i wrote yield :-)
Jose (7:49): darren...
Darren (7:49): article 14 section 1
Darren (7:49): page 20
Darren (7:50): executive committee is being striken
Darren (7:50): to clarify does that mean the whole executive committee is being dissolved
Darren (7:50): if so, which body will make recommendation for bylaw changes and complete all the duties the executive committee does now?
Darren (7:51): yield
Jose (7:51): no, the executive committee will consist of the entire international board
Brian (7:51): hand
Jose (7:51): brian...
Darren (7:51): so i am a little confused then why would the president still not be the presiding officer of the ec
Darren (7:51): ?
Jose (7:52): the exec comm is essentially the board which he already presides over
Brian (7:52): this is consistent with the case for change, however, it needs to clarified that the president is still the presiding officer of all board action
Brian (7:52): and ensure this is consistent with the articles of incorporation
Brian (7:52): this is vague as it is currently written
Brian (7:52): and confusing
Brian (7:53): yield
Darren (7:53): i see...so the duties of the ec will be consumed by the whole board
Darren (7:53): yield
Jose (7:53): correct
Jose (7:53): thanks
Jose (7:53): questions?...
Brian (7:53): hand
Jose (7:54): brian
Brian (7:55): article 21 revenue
Brian (7:55): pg 29
Brian (7:55): section 2
Brian (7:56): how was the iniation fee computed?
Brian (7:56): don't you think it seems a bit excessive especially for clubs with 15 members?
Brian (7:57): shouldn't outgoing key clubbers be given a discount to promote the transition between kci and cki?
Brian (7:57): its already hard enough to get them to pay $25 to international
Brian (7:57): when the currently pay no more than $15 total
Brian (7:57): in most instances
Brian (7:57): yield
Andy (7:58): and it's easier for non-key clubbers to pay that $25?
Brian (7:58): i agree andy
Jose (7:58): very good questions! All numerical figures were done by staff since they are the most knowledgeable about the finances.
Brian (7:58): i am just interested in the point on how this will get more key clubbers as i was told
Jose (7:58): i haver personally been working on a directive to allow key clubbers to have a reduced fee
Jose (8:00): i am looking into this as one of my directives; however, this isn't looking very promising for budget concerns
Brian (8:00): to clarify
Jose (8:00): i completly agree that this is something that should be looked at to become more attractive to key clubbers
Brian (8:00): is $25.00 per person plus the club fee the minimum amout needed for the organization to operate in the black?
Brian (8:01): if so, it needs to be shown to the membership in portland, saying staff supports the amendment is not enough (sorry)
Jose (8:01): correct!
Darren (8:02): perhaps this is something the scotfocki committee should develop
Jose (8:02): i agree with you brian
Tracy (8:02): i also agree with you brian
Jose (8:03): i unfortunately can't tell you all of the logic behind the proposals because i was not on the committee...
Jose (8:04): however, it is very important that we bring up these concerns and discuss them as a board before final amendments are adopted by the board
Brian (8:04): understandable, but it doesn't seem that logic has been made available, just the amendments as they will be submitted for the board meeting have
Jose (8:04): i guarntee you that the proposal as seen will have changes before final amandments are passed by the board
Brian (8:06): hand
Jose (8:06): you are correct...
Andy (8:06): has there been any research into how a reduction of the international dues would affect membership growth?
Jose (8:06): we should be able to answer some of these questions after our board meeting
Jose (8:07): could you clarify your questions?
Brian (8:07): hand
Brian (8:07): to respond
Andy (8:08): clarify: has the board looked into how reducing international dues by a certain percent would increase or decrease membership dues?
Andy (8:08): sorry, increase of decrease membership numbers
Andy (8:08): my bad
Jose (8:09): logically, membership would increase with lower dues...if we look at past trends, membership has decrease each time there has been a dues increase
Andy (8:10): so? Why aren't we decreasing dues? Why operate with only a little over 12,000 members the same way key club operates with over 240,000?
Jose (8:10): lowering membership dues would not fix our budget deficit.
Andy (8:11): would lowering staff members?
Jose (8:11): most staff salaries are paid by kiwanis already
Kevin (8:11): or lowering extraneous spending by the international board?
Andy (8:12): or lowering international board members all together?
Jose (8:12): that's what amendments have done already...
Jose (8:13): next year there will only be seven representatives
Jose (8:13): this is down from 9 trustees
Kevin (8:13): or lowering how the iboard spends our money; ie going to ny for their board meeting; seeing a broadway play on cki; eating at $100/plate meals
Andy (8:13): so if you're lowering board members, decrease dues
Tracy (8:13): hand
Tracy (8:13): just to clarify jose
Tracy (8:14): i thought the number of trustees would go from 9 to 6
Tracy (8:14): correct me if i'm wrong
Andy (8:14): wow, haven't heard the ny or broadway thing, i would have loved to have used my $25 to go see a broadway play
Tracy (8:14): yield
Jose (8:14): no, there will be 7 sub-regions
Tracy (8:14): oh okay
Tracy (8:14): thanks for letting know!
Tracy (8:14): :-)
Jose (8:14): kevin...you have been misinformed
Andy (8:15): is there going to be clarification?
Jose (8:15): board councelor tom dejulio subsidized most of the spending for our board meeting in new york...expenses for entertainment were done exclusively out of his own pocket
Kevin (8:15): hand
Jose (8:15): he and his wife made arrangements for us on their own expense
Jose (8:16): yes kevin
Brian (8:16): hand for the second time
Kevin (8:16): has the international board thought to disclose expenses to the general member of cki
Kevin (8:16): example: "general and administrative expense, $430, 029"
Jose (8:17): one second brian
Kevin (8:17): what is general and administrative?
Terry (8:17): expensive, that's what it is...
Kevin (8:17): obviously
Jose (8:18): g&a expeneses are expenses incurred in the everyday operations not included in the other accounts
Kevin (8:18): such as...
Jose (8:18): anything incurred in the operations of the office which we do not work in
Jose (8:19): let's continue with the proposal and we can return to other concerns later
Jose (8:19): brian please continue
Andy (8:19): and jose, do understand that these questions are not pointed at you directly, they are pointed at the institution itself; with that in mind, do not feel the need to have to defend the institution (not saying that you are)
Kevin (8:19): agreed
Brian (8:20): the new structure does not allow for extraneous spending furthermore a regional structure is a new of operating that requires less money (i.e. lower dues)
Andy (8:20): is that actually going to happen?
Brian (8:20): way
Andy (8:20): or is that just an empty promise to get people to buy-into the new system?
Brian (8:20): it has to otherwise the organization will go bankrupt when you decrease revenue you have to do something
Brian (8:20): i resent that comment andy
Brian (8:20): if the organization is intentionally decreasing revenue
Brian (8:21): under your analysis the organization would simply seek another dues increase but they are not
Brian (8:21): they are trying to do what you have askes, create a structure that doesnt operate like key club and has lower membership dues
Kevin (8:22): nothing has been said about lower dues
Brian (8:22): i admit there are a lot of questions and amendments, but the idea is consistent with the intent of what you asked before we got into the expenses of the december board meeting
Brian (8:22): the lower dues results from the annual club fee
Andy (8:22): and i appreciate that, and as you know through our talks i am in favor of a restructuring of some sort, do not take offense to my comments because they were not directed at you
Kevin (8:23): well it essentially stays the same for the members
Brian (8:23): the annual club fee will result in ppl paying less than $
Brian (8:23): 32 a year
Brian (8:23): over four years
Brian (8:23): right now you pay at least $32 every year regardless of the size of your club
Brian (8:23): that does not encourage growth
Brian (8:23): in fact everyone stops when the hit 20 because that is the minimum
Brian (8:23): yield
Jose (8:24): brian is correct in his comments...thanks!
Terry (8:24): yes, thank you brian
Andy (8:24): thanks for the clarification
Jose (8:25): any additional quesitons about the proposal?
Andy (8:25): is it posted on the website?
Jose (8:25): no, i sent out the link in email and early in the chat. Do you not have it?
Jose (8:26): http://www.box.net/shared/8treb1h1mk
Andy (8:26): thanks, jose!
Jose (8:27): if no further questions on the porposal, i'll open the floor for any questions on anything from the board book.
Brian (8:27): hand
Jose (8:27): yes, brian.
Brian (8:27): article 10 (areas) section 6
Brian (8:28): if the organization is going to assume the responsibility of training area coordinators and club officers, why doesn't the bylaws call for a sub-regional leadership summit where that training can take place after the sub-regional co
Brian (8:28): nvention
Brian (8:28): i think that would put to ease a lot of fears about the organization abandoning officers
Brian (8:28): ncsc does this and so does deca epsilon chi
Brian (8:29): the organzation subsidizes so it is offered at a nominal fee
Brian (8:29): and it last for two days
Brian (8:29): yield
Jose (8:29): thanks for the comment.
Jose (8:30): comments or quesitons on the entire board book?
Jose (8:31): anything?
Kevin (8:31): hand
Jose (8:31): yes, kevin
Brian (8:31): hand
Kevin (8:31): article 10 page 11 section 12
Kevin (8:35): did that go through?
Jose (8:35): no
Kevin (8:35): how will it be possible for clubs to be represented at the sub-regional convention?
Kevin (8:36): for instance, if the convention is held in philadelphia, it is nearly impossible for ck'ers in ohio, tennessee, kentucky, and west virginia to drive and/or fly to the convention due to time and monetary issues...
Kevin (8:36): therefore, how will votes be fairly represented by areas, and in turn, how will elections be fairly represented?
Kevin (8:36): had to break it up
Jose (8:38): this is a good concen; however, it would exist regardless of where conventions are held...in addition, the board is currently considering alternate methods of voting to take place
Jose (8:38): it would certainly require much more fundraising on the part of each club
Jose (8:39): brian do u still have a questions
Brian (8:39): yes
Brian (8:39): agent point 13: article 13, section 6
Brian (8:40): i am greatly concerned about this agenda point. Regardless of the whether or not there was an oversight your board does not have authority to make changes to the bylaws
Brian (8:40): only the policy code
Brian (8:41): this year delegates at large will only vote for president and vice-president unless they are a club delegate than they can vote for their sub-regional rep
Jose (8:41): correct...i think the wording is confusing.
Brian (8:41): this agenda point is rightfully due for the membership's consideration in portland not the international board's
Jose (8:42): if passed by the board, this agenda point will come to the hod in portland
Brian (8:42): well i dont support it as written
Terry (8:42): well this makes the second time the board has decided to render the bylaws optional this year, the first being the refusal to appoint a replacement trustee for christopher laubenthal of the ohio district...
Brian (8:42): and will be speaking with president alec about it
Brian (8:43): "just get it into the bylaws as quickly as possible" sounds like the mdb committee feels it has the right to speak for the organization
Jose (8:43): i agree and don't like it as written either
Brian (8:43): as a reminder it doesn't
Brian (8:43): thank you jose
Brian (8:43): i am glad u understand my concern on that agenda point
Jose (8:44): it was very poorly written and i have many questions of my own to bring up about this agenda point
Jose (8:45): any further questions?
Terry (8:46): hand
Jose (8:46): yes, terry
Terry (8:46): for thoe of us who may have more questions after hearing everything that was said tonight, when is the next chat session scheduled for?
Terry (8:46): *those
Jose (8:47): the next chat is scheduled for tuesday night at 11pmeastern/10pm central/8pm pacific
Terry (8:47): thanks jose!
Terry (8:47): yield
Jose (8:47): if will be unable to attend that chat, you can always email me your comments and questions by wednesday
Jose (8:48): i will be leaving thursday for our board meeting so i need all comments emailed to me before that to josearteaga2@yahoo.com
Jose (8:49): any questions for the last time?
Jose (8:50): alright...well thank you all for attending. Great comments and questions.